Is it normal or do I need to get the contractor back in? There are numerous homes that are the same in our neighborhood and I have noticed they all have the master bath exhaust exiting through a side vent, where our home exits into the soffit. Whenever you look for the flow rating of bathroom fans, do not forget to look at what pressure conditions they were rated for. Thanks. Do you have a heat recovery device to bring fresh air into the building? Airflow at exit outside is strong. Mike E.:Mike E.: That’s another good one. Here, instead of blowing into an open duct or open space, the air hits compressed fiberglass insulation. Remove the grille and try to find and clear the clog with a brush, preferably one that’s specifically for cleaning ducts. Not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I was wondering if someone could help. The baffle just inside the exhaust vent had about 1/4-1/2 inch of heavy compacted dust on the outside that was weighing it down and the force of the fan was not enough to efficiently lift it. Insulate the duct. And yes, dryer ducts are often worse. Pull the grille down and pinch the springs to release them from the housing. Gordon T.:Gordon T.: I seem to recall responding to your question about wall-mounted fans somewhere (LinkedIn) and probably said they’re OK if they don’t go through a building envelope wall. My favorite is the magicMy favorite is the magic connection. Exhaust fans are used to pull air particles from your rooms and out into the atmosphere and can help remove heat during the summer. Akicon Ultra Quiet 90CFM Ventilation Fan. The fan pushes the moist air you create from taking a shower outside, so you don’t rot everything in your bathroom. In the old days, if the bathroom was smelly or steamy, you were supposed to open a window to air it out. I’ve spent a lot of time in attics looking at problems with insulation, air sealing, HVAC systems, and ductwork. It took a long time for the heat to warm up and secondly we had 9 ft ceilings and when the heat was blown downward it wasn't that heated and felt more like marginally warm/cool air blowing on you. Great info. Walt S.: That really long run in #3 above does exactly that – dumps what little air makes it there into the soffit. M. Johnson: Yes, that’s absolutely true. Because of this, I installed a larger exhaust fan that was plenty more than our small bath needed and have begun to realize that it is not pulling air, condensation literally drips down the walls while she showers. Good topic. Building Americas has a nice article about this showing the results of an FSEC research study that coincides with your 0.5″/cfm recommendation. I’m sure the installer just took his lunch break and will be back any minute to finish this up. There are plenty of nice timer switches available for this purpose. You can revoke your consent to receive emails at any time by using the SafeUnsubscribe® link, found at the bottom of every email. How much ventilation do I need? Realistically though, undercutting bathroom doors is probably the only viable option for these typically small rooms that have the doors open most of the time anyway. Now what? I am also glad to see that E.T. Have you made any updates to your bathroom yet? Green Curmudgeons, Architects, and Outlawing Batt Insulation    Barbara W.: You’ll have to have someone determine why they’re not pulling air out of those rooms. Air flow can be restricted on the front end of the fan, too. Here are my “Keys”Here are my “Keys” to get them to pass:    Use next highest rated airflow for the rate you are trying to achieve. What have you seen? Avoid venting through a soffit vent or ridge vent. In these cases, you’d need something more powerful in order to properly exhaust the warm air. I love your analogy of soldiers crawling through the ducts. Generally, fans manufactured before the ’90s were not protected. Vent was never vented out side. Should be decent air flow entering the bathroom. Chris C.: Using metal elbows at turns is a great idea in any duct system. Danko:Danko: Great points! If your bathroom fan is not able to pull in air, it could be the fan is not clean and air gaps are blocked by dirt. Here are 5 reasons why this happens. And if the soffits are open, isn’t this humid air being exchanged into the attic, especially if there’s a gable or ridge vent pulling the soffit air through? The rule of thumb for sizing bath fans is 8 ACH (actual flow)of the bathroom volume. Open each a little bit so it doesn't get too cold in one room. If the bathroom fan motor won't run run, either the motor is burned out or there may be no power to bathroom fan, says Family Handyman. On Facebook recently you posted a photo from the Roxul plant in Ontario. A working fan will grasp it t ightly. Allison,  Allison,  A thousand thanks for doing this blog. I guess they are supposed to have flaps in them too. : Regarding undercut doors as return air pathways, Section 2.8 of the HVAC System Quality Installation Rater Checklist, Energy Star version 3, (Rev. I have a 1″ undercut at the bottom of the bathroom door and the duct has one elbow at at the ceiling vent housing and then runs about 9′ straight out the back of the house. As a property manager, I have seen several fires due to overheating motors in exhaust fans. We did a master bath remodel and I got a multi-function fixture that was a vent fan, heater, light and night light. Just some more info. Here's how to do it best, Not a fan of shower-tub combos or of ditching the tub altogether? The larger fan had the same size as the original. If your duct gets too curvy your pressure losses will definitely overcome the rated pressure for the fan (might be good to post some article about fan system curves in a future to explain this concept in more details). Even when looking at the air that fan removes. Nice big outdated bathroom that is not very functional. Not only does it have to make that turn, which reduces air flow, but the duct isn’t pulled tight, which reduces it even further. So my wife likes to take 40 minute showers that leave the bathroom a steamy sauna. Then it goes into a piece of rigid duct that goes right up to another ceiling joist. Letting the fan exhaust into an open attic will cause moisture buildup on the underside of the roof. Is this a reason possibly to go with a simple wall-mounted fan (on an exterior wall, of course), like the Panasonic WhisperWall? The usual culprit here is that the house is built too well without adding the necessary counter measures. In addition to being more energy efficient, they exceed the current minimum code-required air flow and are generally very quiet. The makeup air would come from the path of least resistance, and that could be it. :). It’s not the right fan for the job. Sample Reports. Great stuff! As you say, if the soffit vents are doing their job, air is coming up into the attic there, so the air from the duct gets pulled right back into the attic. This isn’t a very logical ventilation method, especially when temperatures are below zero, or when the weather is 90°F and humid. Obviously ceiling-mounted bath fans can have problems with crazy flex ducts. As you can see in the photo above, there’s no duct attached to this fan. Showers increase the humidity in the bathroom. (Remove all dust and dirt so the air can flow properly) Use a canister vacuum and remove ALL dirt and dust that is in the vent housing and and on the fan blades or blower wheel. I removed the 45 CFM fan & motor from the housing and left the ceiling cover and light in place in spliced the in-line fan in the duct work in the attic. Keep your ducts and grilles clean to have a good runnig power of your fan (the same as with your car). A bathroom exhaust fan works by pulling moisture out of the air before it can cause harm. If the duct is supposed to be going one way, the installer needs to install the fan housing with the duct opening facing that way. I'd love to see what you're inspired by. The hose is buried under attic insulation however so I can not say for sure. What can be done to fix this problem. Next, I left the door open (in case of a vacuum issue), but that did not help. Another major benefit of having a bathroom exhaust fan has to do with odor removal. If you have an older fan, check to see if it is thermal-overload protected. Here’s how they make their way into our home decor, Learn what features to expect for $3,000 to $100,000-plus, to help you plan your bathroom remodel, A designer and his team hit the industry’s biggest show to spot bathroom ideas with lasting appeal, Learn how to balance your budget and set priorities to get the home features you want with the least compromise. Usually, no duct means better air flow. Clean the vent cover under hot water in the sink. You could be overworking it and it’s failing to keep it. Data Collection Putting in a bigger fan can overcome duct problems if it’s too difficult or expensive to fix the duct, but fixing the duct is always where I’d start. It’s a top choice if you’re designing a bathroom that is beautiful and functional. And that can result in mold growth. My guess is the bathroom fan exhaust pipe is located in a cold attic space. Duct too long. I did write something about mineral wool this summer. As for the humidity outside being greater, that is the reason for installing fresh air ventilation directly into the return side of the AC, bringing in clean, dehumidified air. Also, depending on your locality’s building codes (if you have any), the IRC has for years restricted the maximum duct run to 35 ft or less (or the manufacturers recommendations) depending on the number and type of elbows in the line. Great big undercuts in theGreat big undercuts in the bathroom? Some of the fancy fans have lights in them and I am told that the fans vary in quality. Air King Ltd BFQ70 Snap-In Bath Fan - ENERGY STAR® This high performance ENERGY STAR exhaust fan features our unique Snap-In Installation System. The way it’s hooked up the vent is pointing DOWNWARDS so condensation doesn’t fill up in the vent. I tested the suction by using a Kleenex and the fan would not pull the Air out. Your extras are fluffed and folded. Hi there, Dee Dee! That duct needs to go all the way to the outside to do its job. 10 Bathroom Trends From the Kitchen and Bathroom Industry Show, Where to Splurge, Where to Save in Your Remodel, Where to Store the Towels When You Don’t Have a Linen Closet, How to Choose the Right Hood Fan for Your Kitchen, Green and Clean: Ventilate for a Healthy Bathroom, 8 Narrow Bathrooms That Rock Tubs in the Shower, how do i figure out the amount of tiles i need toile the bathroom. What about when the moistureWhat about when the moisture is high in the air outside anyway, such as on a rainy day the moisture levels outside could be at 96% humidity +. Bath fans are great at exhausting humid or smelly air, so (in spite of the code loophole) every bathroom should have one. Usually, exhaust fans are installed in kitchens and bathrooms due to the purpose of those rooms and the effect they have on the air quality of your home. Once the fog is gone from the bathroom in periods of high dew point, turn off the fan. All fans now are required to be. Maybe you bought a small exhaust fan in order to save money. HVAC Design Protocols That cheap little plastic damper on the discharge of the fan has been stuck closed from installation due to drywall texture or paint overspray. By submitting this form, you are consenting to receive marketing emails from: Energy Vanguard, 1924 Clairmont Road, Atlanta, GA, 30033, http://energyvanguard.com. Even on a muggy day in Houston, though, bathrooms can have a higher dew point than outside – at first. This cold pipe can cause the air inside the pipe to go from warm to cold. When those cubic feet get hard to pull in, they aren’t going out as easily either. What this means is that you need to run the bath fan with the door open for a while to get a decent amount of air exchange. People who work on houses are a creative lot. The vent pipe could be blocked, or it might just be snagged. Older homes often lack bathroom exhaust fans. System Replacement When installed in the kitchen over the range, they’re called forehead greasers. If you plug the vent it's going build pressure and blow back into the home. Indem Sie weiterhin auf der Website surfen bzw. A fan will expel air, but only when there is makeup air to replace it. A typical bath fan is rated to move 50 cubic feet per minute of air when it’s operating, but most actually move about half of their rated air flow. The old ductwork is about 5′ and straight, but it’s only 3″ around while the new fan has a 6″ opening with a 6″ to 4″ adapter. Emails are serviced by Constant Contact, © 2020, Energy Vanguard | 533 West Howard Avenue, Suite E, Decatur, GA 30030, HVAC Design for Code Compliance | Energy Vanguard, HVAC Design Data Collection Forms | Energy Vanguard, Sample HVAC Design Reports | Energy Vanguard. Exhausting a bath fan through a soffit as you describe may be OK as long as there’s no possibility of feedback. I pulled my fan off from the bathroom ceiling and reached into the exhaust hose. And yes, positive pressure ventilation systems can help with the dew point issue. Shouldn’t a modest undercut along with the HVAC supply vent in bathrooms supply sufficient exhaust vent makeup air? And one thing not to forget. The crack under the door is large enough for a toddler's hand (according to my wife) and the vent in the bathroom serves two rooms so that should provide additional air to pull. The air doesn’t go where you’d like it to, but it flows easily. Or, even if the bath fan was vented through a soffit, that is separated by 5 feet on either side away from other soffits, shouldn’t this solve bath fan air going into the attic? Let's all be honest - bathrooms are very rarely the nicest smelling rooms in your home for a myriad of different reasons. The next time someone starts to takes a shower, leave the door open, but also open a few windows a bit around the house, not the bathroom window. The problem is when wood surfaces in the attic are colder than the exhaust air dew point… you get condensation. Turn on the exhaust fan and hold a thin piece of paper, such as toilet paper, over the grille. Dryer vents are even worse than bath fan vents, but that’s another article. Thanks for raising the issue of how much undercut a bathroom door needs. Not much comes through. If you can locate the model number of the fan, and the manufacturer’s name, you can look for its manual online. But let’s follow that duct and see where it takes the air. Check that it is closed when fan is off and the flap opens when fan … Reasons to run the bathroom exhaust fan. Bathroom exhaust fan make-up air requirements for tight buildings: this article explains why we need to provide make-up air in to bathrooms to permit the exhaust fan to operate effectively and safely. There might be a quarter inch gap between the duct and the joist, not enough to let much air out. Oh, wait that duct was installed decades ago. I just got a new fanI just got a new fan installed and it seems that it is blowing air out as well as sucking it in. There was 40 years of accumulated dust, like in a dryer filter. The NuTone White 50 CFM Exhaust Bath Fan The NuTone White 50 CFM Exhaust Bath Fan with Light combines efficient air circulation and up to 100 watts of illumination in one easy installation. I always like to tell people when laying out the ducts in craziest possible manner to imagine that they were soldiers who need to crawl throug these ducts to the end, and figure out which layout will exhaust them more. How to Repair a Bathroom Fan Replace a dead motor and improve air flow. Seen that happen a lot. Yeah, I caught that alien lurking in an attic about 3 years ago. That’s a bit unusual and could cause problems, depending on what else is in there. Bam! The first thing to do to repair a bathroom exhaust fan is to remove the vent cover by pulling it down and squeezing the spring clips together to remove them out of the slots. Mehr erfahren. One more scenario to considerOne more scenario to consider: ducts could be perfect to outdoors with no obstructions, plenty of makeup air is available, and the poor fan still not move much air. Make sure there is a sufficient gap under the bathroom door. If the bathroom exhaust is not removing the moist air then you should get it fixed before you have mould problems. The fan blades spin the wrong direction and no air is pulled out of the bathroom. Maybe the bathroom is too big for it or your family is a huge fan of hot showers. Even the best bathroom fan can’t improve ventilation if it’s thick … Because of this, I installed a larger exhaust fan that was plenty more than our small bath needed and have begun to realize that it is not pulling air, condensation literally drips down the walls while she showers. This is yet another very quiet bathroom exhaust … What solutions are folks using for the bathroom return path problem? Great post and excellent blog. Insulating bath fan ducts is a great idea, too, to prevent condensation inside the duct in cooler weather. To determine this, a few more questions.... Did they put plastic on the ceiling before the drywall? You can see from the dark spot on the fiberglass that some air does escape, but it won’t be much here. Go outside and find the vent. the reason you got mold on it is because the bathroom fan got it wet with moisture and you may also need some better ventilation for the attic and need some local advice on the amount and best methods for your area. I like your bathtub though. The wire spiral that gives flex duct its round shape also gives it extra friction, especially when it’s not pulled tight, as you see here, so the air flow just peters out. (But, hey, they have a radiant barrier!) It is AMAZING how quiet they run when installed like that and they perform as expected. Bathroom Workbook: How Much Does a Bathroom Remodel Cost? Choose a quiet bathroom exhaust fan now from our selection online; pick up at one of 500+ stores across the country. and one in the laungry rm. Thanks. Can we look forward to something about mineral wool? Went up into Attic and the Exh. Isn’t having a bath fan going directly into the attic doing the same thing, putting humid air into the attic? Don’t just turn the fan off when you leave because it probably hasn’t done enough yet. Just wanted to question that conventional wisdom. die App nutzen, stimmen Sie der Verwendung von Cookies und von ähnlichen Verfahren der Houzz Gruppe zur Verbesserung der Produkte, Dienstleistungen, zur Darstellung von relevanten Inhalten und um das Nutzererlebnis anzupassen, zu. Check out these 8 spaces with tubs in the shower, Small wonders are challenging to pull off in bathroom design, but these 8 complete baths do it with as much grace as practicality, Mein Benutzererlebnis mit Cookies anpassen, World of Design: Where Color Trends Begin. How? The included bracket, nails or screws to the ceiling joist allowing the fan housing to "Snap - In". Sometimes it gets high enough to cause condensation to appear on the mirror and other surfaces in the bathroom. Code Compliance I’ve also seen why so many bathroom ventilation fans don’t move much air. Reset the circuit breaker if necessary. It sounds like maybe the fan flow is hitting an obstruction that’s deflecting part of the air back into the bathroom. Great stuff! But quite a number of houses are in a humid climate where outdoor dew point is higher than the indoor dew point. So you should always run your bath fan when you shower. Connect the wiring and the ducting, Install the easy fitting grill and you are done. I wish you the best of luck with the sweepstakes - your bathroom definitely has potential! For an incognito bathroom exhaust fan, consider the Hunter Sona Bath Fan with Light. Thank you so much for posting photos - they are so helpful when trying to get an idea of what you're working with. I’ve seen them installed poorly by both trades, but you’re right that it really should be the HVAC contractor’s job because they’re more likely to understand air flow. People new to building science and HVAC are confronted with a lot of terms for things that are related but…, HVAC Design Colors go in and out of vogue. As stated before, flex duct has a high friction rate, and it’s easy for air not to have the oomph to make it through imperfect installations. not only majorly disgusting but also potentially dangerous. Supposing there were both an HRV and a dedicated exhaust fan in a bathroom, and the exhaust fan happened to run when the HRV was not running, would that tend to draw makeup air from the HRV duct (i.e. Use a 5-6″ duct, preferably insulated and run it “straight” up through the roof if possible. Don’t forget privacy concerns.
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