This is why I cant get into the XDS, Shield, PF9, PM9 etc. Look at our history for proof if you dont believe me. I was at my LGS when they got their first one. Sure a good gunsmith can smooth and tweak a Taurus TCP’s action and install popper high visibility sights for $200-300 additional to the purchase price. Barely smaller than my CM9, and it hurts to shoot the thing. . At defensive distances of 7-10 yards, both the .380 and 9mm from pocket guns will be just as effective and ineffective. If she ever needed to use it, as an untrained, incompetent shooter she’d need something as simple to operate, reliable, and soft shooting as possible. Put those ballistics in your pipe and smoke ’em! It doesn’t matter what barrel you shoot a .380 from, it will not equal a nine. I love ‘me on my 27. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. If Glock had gone there, they would have a market 10 times the size of the G42 market. If you are going to use the less than effective 380 you might as well get a pocket pistol the actually fits in your pocket. And if you like GLOCKs and have other GLOCKs and want to keep consistency throughout your collection, it could be a good choice. re: Glock 43 vs Kahr cm9 experience. really amazing. If you cant comfortably carry it in the pocket then it offers no advantage over some bigger more comfortable guns. https://goo.gl/W2M1QLStill can't get enough guns? It really doesn’t look like the 9mm in the PM9 runs off and leaves the 380 in the glock based upon the results. ShootingTheBull410: GLOCK 42 vs. Kahr PM9. And, my sister has the exact same problem. The simple rule of thumb is if you’re a Glock person – buy the Glock 42 / a Sig person – buy the Sig P938 / a Kahr guy – buy the PM9. The way to give a recoil sensitive shooter Glock’s revolver-like reliability in a semi-auto package, with faster reloads. If you can't find what you are looking for use the category navigation (e.g. Also, to each his own. There’s just no contest in the pocketability of the TCP, vs. the Sig 938. I carry a Kahr P380 because it is tiny. I love my kahr cm9 and it met my needs for ccw, especially for summer months when I wear shorts and tee shirt. I do own a Glock 48, 43, and have shot a 43x. Finally, I added a Hogue grip sleeve to fill out the grip in my hand, which made a world of difference. So it’s not like the GLOCK 42 is incapable of delivering that depth of penetration, it’s just that Critical Defense is the wrong round for the job. Precision One 90gr HP/XTP. I like the slightly longer and better grip of the 42, appendix carry, just makes it easier for me to hit the sweet spot. 380, but I’m not putting someone down for it either. That being said, I do not carry in the pocket if I can help it. Neither are pocketable, or both are. There are many reasons I selected Critical Defense. With marginal calibers shot placement becomes that much more important. Thanks, Greg. For that matter, you don’t get there with a pistol caliber until you use super hot .357’s out a full sized pistol or .44 or higher calibers. But many firearm owners do not. It’s actually comparable to my Kahr CW45. Has run perfect for me for over 400 rounds now, tough to count with the tiny mags. They’re in a whole different class from most pistols, including the Kahr. I don’t know…looking at the table above – Yes the 9mm does do a little better in the test. A 22mag at close range will end a fight….. And both are giants compared to my Kahr P380. Shooting a pistol that fits the hand, is easily shootable accurately, and has the shooter’s confidence is the best for the individual shooter, no matter what the caliber. Glock could have stopped with Gen 2, my 2 cents. I just bought an LCP for one reason, fits in any pocket. Now THAT is a pocket gun! And as much as we might disdain the practice, it is going to work for Glock and they are going to make more money, which is the basic purpose of being in business in the first place. I will definitely buy a Glock 43, however, in 9mm when it finally comes out! What do you give up in terms of ballistic performance from the G42, as compared to a comparably-sized PM9? It was a pain in the azz to play the quick draw and drill the x! Its trigger is not optimum but practice helps. I like a Glock just fine, but this is useless to me. With the PM9 I have to really concentrate on maintaining my sight picture during the long trigger pull.-The Glock 43 has around a .5" longer barrel length than the PM9. Thank you for this article. Looking to buy or sell guns, learn gun safety \u0026 shooting techniques and get the latest gun reviews?Visit our cool website at http://guncarrier.comBe Social. The Glock 27 on your hip delivers 180 grain JHPs at almost exactly the same speed as the Glock 42 delivers 90 grain JHPs – roughly 900-950 FPS. I would want a G19 slide on a G26 frame. The M\u0026P Shield, Kahr Arms PM9, and the new Glock 43. When you can get a polymer framed singlestack 9mm that’s smaller and lighter than a Walther PPK, what reason is there for the .380 to exist? I believe the only blowback that’s stronger than .380 is the Makarov. Overall, I agree that the .380 is a vastly inferior round. She just cannot rack the slide on most pistols, but she can easily rack a Glock or the Sig P938 or P238. Now I’ve got 11 round .40 mags, 3.5″ barrel, decent concealability, and my hand fits on the damn grip. This is the third part of a three-part series exploring the ballistic performance of the new GLOCK 42. The .380 exists because it is the best of the marginalia. I love my Kahr K9 for IWB, but I wanted to get a CM9 for pocket carry during the summer months. If your choices are .380, .32ACP, .25, .22 LR or some other mousegun cartridge pretty much the only ones that make any kind of sense at all are .380 or .22LR. It was luck for sure, had no idea that I would hit him, let alone kill him instantly. I’ve never really understood the point of380 for a non-recoil challenged shooter. Here’s a Taurus TCP overlaid on top of the 42. I carry a CM9, but not in my pocket. However, even the PM9 is to large for me to pocket carry comfortably without printing. It’s not night-and-day bigger, but it’s enough of a difference that the GLOCK is, in fact, basically the same size as a pocket 9mm. Yes, the PM9, Georgia Gun Reform Passes House, Silencers Go to Senate Committee, Gun Tattoo of the Day: Protected by Smith & Wesson Edition, DEATH AND TAXES: Help Your Family Value Your Guns and Safely Sell Unwanted Firearms and Accessories, Tyrant Designs Announces its New ITTS Triggers for GLOCK G43, G43X, and G48, DIY: Installing an Ed Brown 1911 RMR Cut Slide. Fanboys got to have one. Compare Pocket 9mm Handguns: M&P Shield, Kahr PM9, & Glock 43 I carried a G19 for a long while, but I switched to the G42 because it is a perfect fit for my hand and finger reach. That’s a big, big difference. The difference in expansion for the same 12″ is something that is marginal. Like saying a Corvette “BLOWS AWAY” a mustang if it beats it by 0.2 in the quarter mile. I have always assumed that this was the ‘small’ CC Glock for recoil sensitive shooters. The .380s are for ultimate concealability OR ease of shooting. And for its size it’s not as powerful as other options. .380 has more than enough stopping power. .380 is far more controllable than a 9mm from a similarly sized platform. Even at its small size, the CM9/PM9 are not really pocket carry guns, at least for slacks or work pants. Why? Even though it’s one of the tiniest 9mm pistols you can buy, it was still just too big for my diminutive pockets when I tried it out (it fit OK, but printed badly and was very difficult to draw). If that means doing it with a .380 over a 9mm, oh well. I compared it to my trusty PM9 and said no … Comments here on the .380 range from obsolete, puny, marginalia, and on. MSRP: CW9 - $449 but can be purchased between $300-$350; Glock 43 - $589; advantage Kahr. Another responder above called the 380 “less than effective”. Rinse. I am 5’8″ 175 lbs and my pockets are just too small. i shaved about half inch off the bottom of my glock 19, bought a few glock 26 magazines, and have an easy to conceal pistol. Using Precision One ammo with the Hornady XTP resulted in over 13” of penetration from the GLOCK (and, I’d wager, so would Fiocchi Extrema, Hornady Custom, or any of the several other loadings of XTP bullets in .380 ACP). Plus I’ve had several malfunctions. If you’re not allowed to get a 9x19mm and you want one, just get a 9x21mm. She’d likely put it in a drawer and never practice by herself. Agreed. Failure to penetrate 12″ in gel means that the probabilty of inflicting incapacitating damage is low. However, it was a rather lousy performer when I tested it from the TCP. It was heavy but thin and would feed anything. Depends on a number of situations. The GLOCK 42 with Critical Defense delivered 9” of penetration, and the Kahr 9mm delivered 12” of penetration, with slightly larger-expanded bullets too. If concealing well was not important to me, I would NOT carry a large .380, I would carry a .45 (or maybe a nine, although I don’t currently own one). It is a tad beefy for pocket carry, choose your pants accordingly. Guard slaps my trigger finger. I tried to read through all of the replies, I understand the original point was ballistic berformance and size. Glock ships with 2 mags and Kahr CW9 ships with one, advantage Glock. I really enjoyed my CW9. Glock 43 vs Kahr CW9 I have a CW9,PM9 and a CT40, so I know some Kahr faults I'm looking at a G43 because it's a Glock and I have a G19 so I know they're ugly The big question is the G43 much of an upgrade over the CW9 ? The Glock 43 is the latest creation from the firearms company. Whatever the model of CCP you own, you must clean and train with it every week, whilst wearing you concealed carry rig and street clothes. Some want the G19 frame with G26 slide, others want the G26 frame with the G19 slide, one wants a longer sight radius with shorter grips, one wants the shorter sight and longer grips…. Compared to the Glock 43, the MK9 is around $300 more expensive, shorter, and heavier. The barrel factors for Glock 42 striker fired [7.17], Kahr striker fired PM9 [6.52] and Sig P938 S/A [6.24]; each are quality handguns of different action configurations, but the PM 9 seems $250 over priced. Besides for the CM9, the Kahr PM9 can also be compared to the Glock 26. Personally, I carry .380s because they conceal well. But I want an ugly high capacity revolver-reliable powerful gun on my belt, so I carry a G27. My P3AT (.77″ wide, 8.3 oz.) You perform and fight better with the gun your most comfortable with! So let’s cut out the BS. If Glock had gone there, they would have a market 10 times the size of the G42 market. Insert obligatory put down of 1911 owners by the polymer gun fanboy crowd. It should be 10-16 i think they over exaggerated the distance needed to create incapacitation. To quote a friend of mine, 6 years with the Seal teams, who only carries a Ruger LCP: It’s plenty if you know what you are doing. Since they’re very comparably-sized with comparable capacity, it seems reasonable to compare them in terms of performance. For many years the PPK was considered the gold standard. But if you choose appropriate ammo you can still get deep enough penetration to meet the FBI requirements, and that’s nothing to sneeze at. Your ability, or lack thereof, determines how much. IMHO, Kahr’s weakness isn’t their trigger. Those two shots proved fatal.” I’ve witnessed the same thing with my woman, I’m don’t think the spring is so much the problem, as the smaller, slimmer slide makes it difficult to get a good grip. (insert comment about no substitution for aiming here). Mass:                                                          115 grains                                    90 grains I got rid of my Bersa .380 because it was bulky/heavy for the caliber and the grip was NOT comfortable. Now THAT is a pocket gun! Got to be less than 15 oz loaded. Isn’t it a tad silly to compare a .380 against a 9mm? I’ll go with Bulls eye and speed any day. Tissue destroyed:                                   35.58 grams                                26.66 grams. I have a CW9 (California will not let me buy a CM version), with one extra round. I handloaded hot hollowpoints for it before I knew they were a litigation risk. 01-20-2017, 02:33 PM #2. But even then, we have to consider that penetration is only one aspect of the story. Some countries (South/Central America, Italy) don’t allow civvys to own military calibers. But in the 21st Century the .380 is the answer to a question nobody asked. I picked the Glock over my other kahrs, keltec, the ever great Chiefs special! Could you include a measure of the amount of force required rack the slide back on the G42, the CM9, and a small pocket .380?. The Kahrs hide slightly better in the pocket with their shorter slides and … It may be difference between a minor wound and critical damage in a fat or very muscular assailant. Gel tests don’t represent a one for one penetration of human tissue. (Add about $35 to the cost of the Kahr for an additional magazine.) LCP kept biting my finger. The Glock 43 is about a half inch longer but all three are about the same weight. Overall, the Kahr barrel is a little longer than the Glock but the overall slide length is a little shorter; advantage Kahr. CCP needs a barrel factor (length of rifling divided by calibre (this is also how artillery and naval guns are measured)) of [6.40]or larger for the defensive cartridge to develop sufficient stopping power. It’s why my summer gun is going to likely be an XDS from here on out. I’m interested because I’ve observed my girlfriend has a hard time racking the slide on a CM9 and I’m thinking the one saving grace of a larger .380 such as the G42 is a potentially a less-stout recoil spring. If you can do that with a hot loaded .357 pocket wheel gun, then even better. I think a .380 definitely fills a good niche – it’s capable of delivering a decent hit, and the pistols can be shrunken to tiny dimensions that make them almost disappear in a pocket. That weighs heavily to me and should be considered regardless of a persons ability to handle recoil. If you can’t rapidly put two in the chest and one in the head, with consistency, from seven yards, then the stronger 9mm round is useless. I usually carry it AIWB, the tool shed hides it completely under a well broken-in T-shirt. You have entered an incorrect email address! Because she would need a small, lightweight gun for her to be able to handle it, but would not practice enough to master any challenging recoil impulse. The lack of recoil in a tense situation could make all the difference. Given that context . I’m not advocating the .380’s (or the .22, for that matter) suitability as a defensive round. They will both, given the right ammunition, penetrate an assailant deep enough to cause death with proper shot placement. The dimensional differences between pocket 9mm’s and pocket .380’s sound insignificant on paper, but they become readily apparent when you handle them in real life (especially to those of us of smaller stature). Me, I’d like to see the G26 slide mated to the G19 frame, for the smallest practical 9mm pistol that’s still reasonably concealable and reasonably shootable (better yet, a G27 slide mated to a G23 frame), but Glock does not solicit my opinion in such matters. While Critical Defense was indeed a better performer from the GLOCK 42 than it was from the TCP (gaining about a full inch of penetration depth), it still pales in comparison to what the 9mm delivered. There was the same sort of hype when the Glock 43 hit the shelves. Plus one on that! is without a doubt a pocket pistol. The biggest benefit of choosing a Glock is the fantastic … How does that make it more concealable? Compare the dimensions and specs of Kahr CW9 and Glock G43X For that duty, I’ve got a Kahr P380. However, that’s not the norm. you can rack the slide with two fingers. The more I read about the Glock 42, the more I wonder who it is intended to appeal to. The question really becomes, if you can choose from two nearly-identical-sized pistols, both with identical capacity, and both carrying Hornady Critical Defense, how does each perform? The gun I would give my wife, if she didn’t already love her Sig 238. As for me I will continue to conceal uncealable compact and full sized pistols. if someone is going to carry a G42- sized pistol they really ought to move up to a 9mm. And third, it was an excellent performer when I tested it from a short-barrel 9mm. I have had good experiences with Kahrs in the past, though I have never owned or shot a PM9 (though I look at them from time to time). It’s like the comment sections on any Glock 42 post are on some sort of auto-post system. I agree. It would take some specific requirements for me to recommend the GLOCK 42 over a pocket 9mm; primarily, if you need the softer shooting that the larger .380 pistol provides (and it is a very comfortable, very soft shooter). 100% agreed. The pocket 9 is still a relatively recent development, and there’s something to be said for a PPK. It’s half a step above throwing rocks. I think that explains why you see so many pass throughs with .40s and I think they should lower the standards due to that problem. Yes, their magazines need to be redesigned. My slide-strength scale is basically my spouse. Would I carry a pocket .380? (Insert obligatory response about how Glock will release the 9mm soon, followed by accusation that they released the 380 first so they can trick people into buying both.). Hmmm, wish I would have done that when I had them! Ruger LCP is a good quality micro gun, but you must smooth the action; which is really just an extension of your training. I usually go with a G26 in an IWB holster. Looking for a PM9 Holster go to Parts&Accessories/Kahr Arms/PM9/Holsters) I went to the range the other day ostensibly to shoot some of the guns I hadn’t shot in a while, and to let me wife become more familiar with the Glock G22 she bought recently. If you drop one, rounds pop out all over the place. Apparently, in the forum world, a .380 will bounce off your chest. The 9mm vs .380 cartridge is about the shooter’s ability to handle recoil. If I want bigger I wear the 23 or the 35. I pocket carry a spare mag. Yes, I have 9mms, 45s, and 10mms, but a short walk outside, the LCP does the trick (with Laserlyte laser and Hogue grip, of course). So if you ever hear anyone say it cant get the job done that person dont know what their talking about and typically they get that conclusion from the fact that it may not travel 12 inches in gel. I hate those things on the Glock. If I wanted a 380 I’d probably carry a Kahr P380, even though I love my Glocks. Back in the day, the late Skeeter Skelton proved that .38 Special service loads with 158gr roundnose lead bullets, fired from a 2″ snubby, and the .380 with 95gr FMJ, produce indistinguishable wound channels in ballistic gelatin. The .380 is an obsolete cartridge. However the micro Taurus TCP striker fired [6.00]; has a more complex parts schematic, has documented feed ramp, magazine and quality control issues. But… There, is the one great in-between. Regards, Greg. Expanded diameter:                                           .52”                                              .43” I don’t want a 9mm vs .45 debate….but again for me, I don’t want a caliber above 9mm in a gun that small. I don’t mind shooting .380, because my Bersa Thunder is so damn comfortable. She wouldn’t perform any maintenance, either. I’m not sure what this comparo proved or intended to prove, but I enjoyed it and dayum if I didn’t learn something along the way. In our debut episode, Amy Jane compares three pocket 9mm handguns. He had to upgrade the magazine springs, but since he did, they have been 100% reliable. And I could hit beer cans from 25 all day with the PF9! Shoot only quality ammo with any CCP, train regularly to a very high degree of proficiency (it’s a SEAL thing), maintain your situational awareness and have a plan of action. But, my point. Whether you love or hate them, glock are absolutely reliable right out of the box. First, it’s available in both calibers. It’s a bit large, but it will hold any mag without losing rounds in your pocket. Why not just a mag extension on your 26? More mass, more momentum, higher velocity, bigger bullet size, and 33% more tissue destroyed. carry a spare glock 17 magazine and feel comfortable with the combination. And I would like to see a different slide/frame combination from Glock too, only I would want to do the reverse. Hi Jan, I agree totally with you Ex-SEAL friend. For that duty, I’ve got a Kahr P380. The Diamondback DB9 is way underrated. But as a micro-pistol it’s not as small as other options. Most TTAG readers have enough interest in firearms to become proficient enough to handle 9mm recoil. I ended up getting a Ruger LCP instead. I may buy a 42 in a few months and a 43 (?) To me the FBI minimum of 12 inches is stupid. We compare them side by side, and then take 'em to the range and shoot them to see the differences.Which are the best handguns? Oh, and Mark N: I too own a CW9. However, in the real world, a .380 fired from a pocket gun at “7” YARDS will go through your typical residential front door. This reviewer admits as much when confessing that XTP rounds over penetrate. Etc even my NAA micro 22mag revolver.. Great deep concealment gun btw. As good as my P9 at any rate, I can’t compare to the smaller guns you’ve mentioned. A .380 and a 9mm are both lethal from defensive distances. Please say hi and thanks to your Ex-SEAL friend for his service; better still ask him to train you. (Insert obligatory chest puffing by 1911 purist fanboy about .45 ACP and insane damage claim). The GLOCK 42, however, is a little bigger than your standard .380 micro-pistol. I’d take her to the range a few times to teach her how to operate the weapon, but that’s all she’d do. Accur81, have you tried the newest LCP trigger? I just don’t like the trigger pull of the LCP and LC9. Us little guys have little pockets. I’ve even had a round work its way out at the bottom of a pocket magazine pouch. I also carry Underwood, or Buffalo Bore 100 gr HCFN standard pressure ammo in it, and no, I do not let overpenetration worry me. StB410, good job! Glock brought the 9mm sized G42 out in 380 for the same reason Apple brought out the iPhone 5C. a&g grip extension kahr, glock 26 gen 4 vs kahr pm9, hickok45 kahr pm9, kahr pm9 bulge, kahr pm9 edc, kahr pm9 frame bulge, kahr pm9 hickok45, kahr pm9 vs glock 26, kahr pm9 vs glock 36, pm9 vs glock 26 What’s in my P3AT and G42? And my daughter, if she didn’t already love her SP101 327. Dan, I think you might be jumping the shark comparing the Glock 42 to a Kahr 9mm, and later on in another post comparing it to a R51. It’s their magazines. Ok, now that I said that, they probably brought it out to market it in caliber restricted countries and to get fanboys in the USA to buy them. Though, I understand why Glock did it. Though it’s possible, now that I’m smarter, I could have fixed it – first Pierce +2 extensions I used on my G27 did too, but the bite filed off quickly once I figured out what was doing it. Check the video for the full test results, but the executive summary is: duh. (Insert obligatory comment about how new Glock should’ve been slimline 9 here). Penetration:                                                     12.00”                                           13.15” My P290 (at .90″ wide, 20.5 oz. So (along the lines of the question I explored in Part II) I also want to see if Critical Defense will perform better from the GLOCK 42’s longer barrel than it did from the TCP’s shorter barrel. It is a standard. Compare the dimensions and specs of Kahr PM9 and Glock G43X However, let’s also consider that the results of Part I’s testing (using a Hornady XTP bullet in the GLOCK 42) were a solid 13” of penetration, even more than the Kahr 9mm delivers with Critical Defense. instead of pocket carrying your spare mag, getting it full of lint and crud, buy yourself a eyeglass case from walmart for $1.98, and the mag slides right in, form fits to your mag and pocket, keeps every thing clean and neat. If you can handle the recoil and blast of a pocket 9mm, I believe you would be better armed with one of those over the GLOCK 42. Less so now that there are more options. But how much less stout is it? Great gun, its actually my preferred carry gun now. I don’t see the point of the G42. You are celebrating freedom of choice. Second, it’s extremely popular. Sadly, I sold it last year because it never got carried considering it was redundant behind my Glock 19, Glock 26, and CM9. I like the GLOCK 42. And.. As I would also factor in the ever important, he who shoots first, tends to win… He who shoots the other guy between the eyes first, always wins! We're always producing new video content on guns, so make sure you SUBSCRIBE to our kick ass YouTube Channel. Its only downside is the DAO trigger. and 40SW. It is just small enough and just thin enough and just light enough. If my 90-year-old grandmother who probably has never used a weapon asked me to buy her a handgun, I’d seriously consider the Glock 42 if not a .38 Special revolver. Or if you have weak hands and need its easy slide-racking ability. If you can do that with the .380, then you have the right tool for the job. I agree – it would be foolish to carry a 380 as large or slightly larger than some pocket 9’s – unless you’re recoil sensitive. Thanks. Shootout: Glock 42 versus Kahr CW 380 . Here is a range comparison with two very popular concealed carry choices with the Kahr CM9 and the Glock 43. I have a hard time recommending 160-190 foot pounds from a .380 when the 9mm is almost double and the .40 is double or more from a subcompact. When I’m out on a quick errand, when I’m relaxing at home, when I’m out for a run, or when I’m dressed up and can’t conceal IWB, the P3AT in a Nemesis pocket holster is what I carry. The .380 ACP makes a whole lot of sense in certain very common situations. The point is if you cant pocket carry it and must use a holster then just as well go for the G26 size with more capacity. get something cheap like a remora mag holder. Not as pocketable due to grip(4.0″) and barrel length (3.6″), but a soft shooting 9 even with 124 grain HPs. However, I can carry a LCP or the like in pocket holster. After all, it’s about the same size . If you don’t need one of those characteristics, don’t get a .380. So you want a 6″ slide on a 7″ frame? I carry a .38 SPL snubby six months a year, and just like Sally and Sue, there ain’t a lot of difference between the two. Shooting a 380 is like shooting a cap gun. Bought a CW380 on a whim, hate it. It weighs 18 ounces, has a 3.39" barrel and holds 6-7 rounds. . These blowhards that spew about the “ineffectiveness” of the 380 know not of what they speak. my wife has a hand strength problem, and a friend introduced us to the ruger LC-380. In this segment, I’m comparing the performance of the G42 against a comparably-sized pocket 9mm pistol, the Kahr PM9.
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