Penetration, velocity, expansion, it’s all there. Also quoting from the Marine Corps Times: The arguments boil down to this: The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the “knock down power” to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. Mabe you are just faster and things work out like the movies. Do you really think that all of SOCOM is using rifles and SMGs, and the Marines are using pistols? But with my Kimber Colt 45 I hit first shot no problem and it left that watermellon in disaster. © 2021 Concealed Carry Inc. All Rights Reserved. So you better have the biggest heaviest bullet going down range that you can possibly get. And other trauma surgeons are on record as saying that they cannot tell the difference between wounds caused by 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. It is all in the “throat” (Leade) and where the bullet contacts the rifling. Which I’d be inclined to think a .45 would transfer more force more immediately taking the spirit out of most. Of course there are but in general the .45 with its bigger slower round is the better choice for knockdown power. Head on over to the Concealed Carry Podcast for great audio content. The germans used 9mm forever and they know their guns and war making. But the biggest issue most of us have is time. In the woods my .45 r1 with cast is what I carry. Many of us feel like we can never get enough practice with our defensive firearms, but we can conduct valuable training right in our own homes using Laser Ammo and a set of SureStrike Dry-Fire Training Cards. We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Not because I have experienced reliability issues with re-manned ammo, but solely not to introduce any external factors that could increase the odds of my self-defense firearm not functioning, even if … However, if the bullet lacks a JHP configuration, then it’s not doing as well as it could. Let the Craftsman pick his tools! Sit back and take a deep breath and pray that if I am ever involved in a use of force criminal trial, pray like mad that this Marine is NOT called as an “Expert Witness” because I do not think there is enough toilet paper in a courthouse to clean up the mess this guy is going to make from his testimony. The Ruger SR1911 is comfortable for some reason and I have considered getting one from time to time. Where aim for the middle of the whole body. I can’t compare to 9mm but I still want to carry 45acp. Concealed Carry Association is more than just a story…. Most people shot with long gun rounds they tend to be doa . Out charges the male mental with a screw driver in his hand. Slow him down, double up, spin/alter his track-anything to allow you to get that second shot and the empty the clip. That is those of us that has and carries guns. 365-Day, Money-Back Guarantee. So, as so many have said above, it depends on what you are comfortable with and what you plan to be doing with it. But I have some serious doubts about his understanding of external and terminal ballistics. What do you think of the Shield or do you know anything about it? The 45 1911 did just that. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. Secondly, are 9mm rounds substantially more accurate than their larger caliber brethren? Really late to the discussion. They are both capable of inflicting mortal wounds far beyond practical range. Every round has its purpose. In stark contrast, the vast majority of incidents involving .40 S&W and .45 ACP resulted in gunshot victims being DRT; they dropped and expired right where they were initially shot, even with imperfect shot placement. You might be able to talk to the first guy. That and other factors. I can buy that. It got up and walked about 25 yards before falling. What I have also seen on the range at 25 yards, while shooting steel silhouette’ time after time, was the 9mm would fail to kick the silhouette out of the track 7 out of 10 times without placing another shot. That said today I only carry my 5th gen Glock 19. Stronger forearms make for better shooting by ensuring you have a solid platform and by helping to control recoil. The ambulance took him away. Vulgarity, Profanity, Name Calling etc. The paramedic’s said he probably would not live. D.R. Sick and tried of people not in the field deciding what is best for those in the field. 45 stopping power! Died instantly. USCCA vs CCW Safe: Which should you pick? However, the .45 would likely be stopped from penetrating but there was a 30% chance, with good shot placement it’s energy could stop the heart. Thank you Rich if you need 15 rounds to put down the assailant you’re in trouble already, I have not near the experience of some of the veterans in the service. I definitely know how to settle this little petty argument. For me the thing that has always solved this debate is simple. We’re the lifesaving resource every protector needs to keep their family safe. Remember we started this country with every make and model of firearm known to man.Give our men our warrior’s the best.Let them choose the caliber they know better than anyone. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. Also ALL handgun calibers are susceptible to ricochet especially when compared to rifle rounds. I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs … like literally at a loss for words. You hit it dead on it’s not the cal that’s most important it’s what you can do with it. This study is still referenced time and again for its information about wounds inflicted by grenade and shell fragments, but what it says about handgun bullets doesn’t fit the “bigger r always better” narrative, so that part’s been buried and forgotten. Just carry what YOU feel most comfortable with and shoot the best with as shot placement is most important. Just saying. Seems to me that American businesses take it in the chin enough already without this insult. Many do not discover the gun that’s right for them as easily as you have (if they ever do)! The 45 hit harder and put your target down more quickly than the 9 mm. George. But in summer I have just discovered the Sig Sauer P938, a 9mm 7+1 with extended magazine. (My opinion) I have long advocated carrying 1911s with 8 extra magazines. Skills are perishable. There is no substitute for experience. My department switched to +p for 45’s. Everyone talking about knock down power verses speed seems like. More than a few owners of the shotshell firing Taurus Judge and Smith & Wesson Governor revolvers do likewise—at least for the first chamber or two. I know I prefer .45ACP. .45 Actually killed to individual who I shot vs the others who all but one lived. EVER! When I left LE I traided for a S&W 39-2 9mm. After two decades where MARSOC operators were allowed to carry a custom-built Colt 1911 chambered in .45ACP, in early 2015 the door was cracked open allowing for them to choose Glock 19's (chambered in 9mm) instead of their larger counterpart. Third, the statement is made that a 9mm “can carry more bullets.”  True. Not the last call, but the second call (get it??? Have you tried airsoft? In fact you are 1000 rounds short. We traded all the 9s some years ago for the 40 which give knockdown power plus multiple rounds. I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. I also am a NRA Certified Instructor and gunsmith in Colorado. Maybe Obama’s army should be issued paint ball guns so there is a non-lethal component too……. So it should not come as a surprise that while the DoD's call for submissions for the new military Modular Handgun System XM17 contract doesn't specify a particular caliber or size they will most likely settle on a new 9mm sidearm. And the department is no small one. Picking the between CCW Safe and USCCA is totally up to your discretion. I hear arguments attempting to compare a 9mm “Gold dot” bullet (a hollow point expanding bullet) to a .45 “Hydrashock” bullet (a hollow cavity expanding bullet with a hardened sabot embedded in the cavity. My point being, is animals don’t always die the same. I see no problem with any branch of the U.S. military using the 9mm, but they need to go back and annul the Hague Commission signing. I’m 73 yoa. So, have you experienced shooting someone at close range with each caliber to determine the stopping power of each round? All of these elements conspire against us and, eventually, most of us give up and choose not to train regularly. With the continuation of the “pussification” of America we see so many in posotions of power making decisions that follow the continuation of that thinkinhg. If you know firearms and know how to properly use them than the caliber shouldn’t matter. I carried an issue 45. Let me suggest that politics might be at play. Americans have this impression, I think, that comes from watching too many old movies, that a bullet fired from a handgun is supposed to flip the bad guys ten feet into the air, if not disintegrate them altogether and leave a smoking pair of haji sandals on the pavement where they were. If the Government is involved in any way, money will change hands. Handgun cartridges just don’t do that. For self-defense, I prefer to purchase factory-new. Along that line of thought, I bought my tiny little 24 year old niece a pistol when she moved to Kansas by herself. This reasoning may not make sense to many of you, but it does to me. Here is the money point: assume you will only get ONE shot at the perp. Due to the pandemic and civil unrest, there are ammunition shortages across the country. I daily now carry a 9 mm. I don’t know if the recoil might throw me off. The past 45 years never needed more than one shot. In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. Your body will make the shot while your mind hesitates every time! Robert MacNemerra knew nothing about firearms but his decision that the AR-15’s chrome lined bore and chamber was a needless waste of money brought a whole lot of grief to a whole lot of people. By now, people should have realized that it is 100% personal opinion and preference. Having fired 45 ACP and 9mm at human targets the 9 took 3 sometimes 4 hits c.o.m. I imagine humans are the same. Ballistic gel is a joke and not a valid substitute for actual flesh and bone. Going on 7 years Law Enforcement here with a rough Dept. To answer the question which is better 9mm or 45APC. A stronger grip will always help your shooting. I can concealed carry and the weight of my Ruger compact 9mm is about as heavy as I want. end of discussion. Okay all handgun are garbage. And here is where we get to one of the most important distinctions between military/LE and self-defense use; it’s also where I have some practical experience, having twice been the victim of home invasions, as well as having to defend myself in public in 4 other separate incidents. Top-quality airsoft pistols can be amazing training tools for the safe instruction of tactical movement and dynamic shooting. I have shot many different calibers. This is just one of them: https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/. Richard, I guess I have “little feminine” hands as I prefer to carry my 9mm for self-defense and on duty. But this cartridge uses a half-grain bullet compared to 9mm. Rookie year. I have both, like them all, and carry them because rifles are hard to conceal! What it really boils down to is budget, not protection. Supposedly he is a firearms and forensic expert with the Rhode Island State Crime Laboratory. I sort of like the Canik TP9v2, with Browning BXP xpoint 147 gr load. The two calibers no one wants to get tagged by . I preferred carrying them before things went bad for me. I have a Ruger American 9 mm full size and its twin in a 45 caliber, I will say yes the 45 caliber is a larger round with more in a way push behind it, but I totally agree with the proper placement of that round when firing is the deciding factor. Ultimately, I resigned from their Legal Advisory Board, on which I had been a founding member, and ceased engaging in partnering actives with USCCA. I can load my rounds as hot as I want, and often do. I am more inclined to put an extra $300-400 toward a second/replacement pistol than spend it on a training gun. It may take 2 rounds to take someone down, but the shooter will have a lot easier follow up shots with the smaller 9mm. Really let’s cut to the chase. So it’s all about what fits they individual and what they are comfortable and accurate with. I use +P ammo. We’ve known this for, what, eighty years now? 15 -25 yards lol I can hit you in between the eyes with my co2 bb pistol. Shot placement was nearly identical. So the moral of the story is: if you’re 5 foot tall, and weigh a hundred pounds, the last thing you probably want to carry with you is a 1911. F=MA is not applicable. That’s my two cents for what it’s worth. With that in mind… The most lead I can force through the air, the better. I’m not going to begin to discuss the variables between the two calibers and cartridge designs but statistics released from DOJ shows that larger cartridges are more effective at stopping Humans per round on target. The above referenced “expert” needs to stick with whatever he may really be an expert at. I thought I would never own a 9 mm. We welcome relevant and respectful comments. I have used both calibers personally in combat, and I can say unequivocally and without any doubt whatsoever that the .45 cal DEFINITELY has much more knockdown power than the 9mm which due to its higher velocity tends to punch right through the assailant leaving him wounded but still on his feet and able to return fire. I don’t have the time to read it…. Better get that imagination under control, tough guy! Practice, practice, practice. - Only this company and US Law Shield offer “No Limit” on both criminal and civil defense. The National Shooting Sports Foundation reported 5 million new firearms owners in the first seven months. There are many fine little “Girls Guns” in 380 cal. [HTML1] Loads of armed Americans load-up their home defense shotgun with less-lethal buckshot. If that were true, we would only have one size Shoe, Clothing Etc. Against bad guys though, gimme a 45 auto. I am older now, living in the city. It’s not our opinion that makes us right. As long as YOU are comfortable with the choice, then I’m happy for you! Followup shots and strings of … Para Ordnance 12-45, officer size 1911 .45acp with 12 or 14 rd mags. I’ve shot so many different weapons, started at the age of 11, hunted most of my life. Now that has some stopping power and even at 600 yards. But you have not reached the mark to replace that recoil spring. Therefore, the 9mm is probably the correct choice. It’s only popular because of the name brand, not the true performance against other guns. Walked closer and finished it with a 44 round between the eyes. We have came a long ways with jackets, core’s and construction of bullets in the last 50 + years. Possible off hand 200. I also reload/handload have shot competitively and have hunted all my life. “there is no substitute for Cubic Inches”. False. Take it from me, a physics major. But a .45/70 at 1597 fps equals a .270 Win at 3200 fps ballistically​ on impact and follow through. One hit with any caliber has more stopping power than 100 misses with any caliber, type bullet or inherent accuracy. Even long range shots! Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Not to mention costs savings in ammo which is a big deal both in the government and civilian perspective. With proper shot placement, I can make my .22 a rock star. Yes I can only get 2 shots off accurately in the same time as 4 with a 9 but again 2 usually does it. and I guess $$.. If you need to kill someone with a single shot, a rifle is what you need, not a handgun.”. Also, I question how much influence the logistics command had over this “conclusion”. I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. Projectiles do not “accelerate” once they leave the muzzle. I am former law enforcement from Florida, depending on the situation I actually carry both my Ruger American 9 mm and the Ruger American 45 caliber ACP oh, not at the same time lol. But associates I worked with and against on jobs they all use one main gun to kill with the 9 mm with silencer. To my way of thinking, its great as a CC gun, or that in the boot back-up. laugh at the “forensic expert” and 2.) When you consider that almost all wounds from pistol caliber firearms were inflicted with SMGs, and when you consider that the most common German 9mm round issued during the war used a 90gr steel-core bullet loaded to do over 1400 ft/sec from pistol length barrels and 1800+ out of SMGs, and you compare this to the lumbering 230gr .45 caliber bullet that had less than half that velocity, it seems pretty plausible. /9mm has a lot more options when it comes to ammo but I prefer my Springfield XD .45 or my Kimber Custom II 1911. My next handgun will be either a Ruger SR 1911 or a Kimber 1911 clone. U.S. Law Shield has an attorney to pick up your call while USCCA has an emergency response representative. This was not a good CC gun so I traded it for a S&W 39-2 9mm. Why is .45 acp so much better than 9mm? How does air resistance have ANYTHING to do with the terminal ballistics as they relate to penetration? Police, f.b.i., train. Like John Saunders, I also used a M1D scoped. On the other hand, a .22 that you can carry easily and put into operation quickly and shoot accurately is probably not a good defense gun/round because to do enough damage requires brain-shot accuracy with each shot. I own one of each 9mil Ruger,Capacity 17 rounds,CZ 45 10 rounds.For stopping power at close range ,I prefer the 45.It is harder to conceal because of its size and weight.The Ruger 9 mil is easier to carry concealed,And a whole lot lighter.Both are comfortable to shoot,to me.A 45 is not for everyone.If you carry concealed the weapon of chose is what you are comfortable with.Handling and performance,depends on the owner.The Military has been changing weapons since day one.I suppose it usually comes down who can supply what the military wants and how much they cost.I personally have handled the Glock 17 and the 19 and don’t care for them.I prefer the Ruger or the CZ.